Or… The More Things Change, the More They Stay the Same.
For those keeping score at home, here is a list of the recent developments at Jay Peak:
- 18 Hole Championship Golf Course
- Tram Haus Lodge
- Clubhouse/Nordic Center
- Ice Haus & Parking Garage
- RFID
- New Hotel Jay
- Waterpark
And that is just getting things started. Within my lifetime (maybe), plans include a new Stateside Lodge, additional Stateside base development, Stateside lift upgrades, and the West Bowl expansion. Jay seems to be reigning in exact plans and time lines until the current dust settles. Regardless, a complete reconstruction of the Tramside base area is just the beginning of changes at Jay Peak.
Old Jay, New Jay
At the new Tram Haus Lodge, an original Jay tram car sits in front of the Taiga Fitness & Spa Center. It is a bizarre juxtaposition that epitomizes change at Jay. Within the Tram Haus Lodge, fancy signs and railings incorporate haul rope from the original tram cable. The new Tower Bar’s center piece is a lift tower and sheave setup from the defunct Green Mountain double chair. The Customer Service desk and ticket windows have replaced the pizzeria but you can still grab a slice in the International Room. You don’t have to go downstairs to use the bathroom in the Tram Haus cafeteria but old schoolers still tempt fate. It’s all the same. It’s all different.
There is a lot to like about the new Tram Haus Lodge. Cheap eats can still be found in the cafeteria; pizza in the International Room. But sit down service is now available at Alice’s Table for not much more expense. The Golden Eagle received a massive upgrade with the slope level Tower Bar (thank goodness). The Tower Bar is a sensational improvement for post skiing libations and a reason for me to go Tramside more often. The on mountain dining changes are tastefully done (literally and figuratively) without changing the existing cafeteria setups. I don’t know how any one could possibly complain about these developments.
The Tram Haus Lodge also features upscale but tasteful lodging, an underground heated garage, and a fitness center and spa. Not things I would associate with Jay–but out of sight, out of mind for this skier. Pampered folks dropping coin on expensive lodging and spa treatments subsidizes my skiing without getting in my way. While I am in one type of powder room, they’ll be in a different one. I am okay with that.
The Tram Haus Lodge merges services that were previously all over the place. The Green Mountain Double Chair turned rental shack was perhaps the worst rental location at any mountain in New England. Gone is the wind tunnel ticket shack between buildings. Now novices get their lift tickets and rental equipment right in front of the beginner lifts. Queuing up for the tram now involves five steps instead of fifty and a pisser is in scrambling distance. And kiss that tacky stucco Bavarian architecture style good-bye! They can tear down the I.R. too, for all I care, at least once the pizzeria is moved to the new Hotel Jay.
The entire Tram Haus Lodge is a total no brainer. Well designed and tastefully decorated with homage to Jay’s past, the Tram Haus Lodge adds and enhances services without taking anything away. The exterior is visually low impact and easy on the eyes from any distance, quite unlike the gaudy Clay Brook (Sugarbush) and Stowe Mountain Lodge monstrosities. I dig it.
Defining Jay by Defining the Self
Jay is currently undergoing an interesting transition in definition. A few years ago, Jay was marketed as an anti-resort: “If you are not here for the mountain, you’re not here.” These ads featured a lady in a hot tub and a gentleman lounging in a room discussing the Surf & Turf Buffet, amongst other such sardonic images. These ads are ironic in hindsight now that Jay is trying to court guests with the very same spa and dining services that were once mocked.
Many of these courted guests will “self define” only with the mountain. This will happen even though off mountain experiences are just as if not more important in their enjoyment of the experience and even their very destination selection. Jay skiers are still marketed to as being “here for the mountain” because that is how they self define, not because it is reality. For the majority of skiers, self definition does not always put the money where the mouth is.
As Jay Would Say: WTRFID?!
Edgy marketing is evidenced everywhere at Jay including the “WTRFID” flyers that were included in our condo welcome packets. Promising to be “your new favorite thing,” at the least RFID was not my least favorite thing. The RFID system is not perfect but I found it worked as designed ninety percent of the time with only one epic fail in three days. While skiing at Burke this past weekend, I was reminded that there are far worse things than RFID; such as the dreaded scanner reach around, stopping you for ten seconds of futile non-scanning while chairs ascend empty.
Queuing up for the Freezer, I waited patiently behind a skier whose RFID tag would not open the wands. A lift attendant reviewed a hand held RFID computer and approached the skier. The attendant informed him that his beginner pass was only valid for the lower mountain; an upgrade to a full mountain pass could be purchased at Customer Service. How many times does this happen during any given day, I had to wonder? If RFID shortens lines by eliminating scofflaws, I guess I can not complain. Especially since it is not a scanner.
The Elephant in the Waterpark
Most can agree that the Tram Haus Lodge is a great thing. Hotel Jay surely will benefit from its razing and reincarnation. The Ice Haus is so far out of sight that you can’t see it while skiing. While the parking situation currently sucks, it will get better once the construction is done. RFID is better than scanners and Jay Peak was perhaps the last major resort in the northeast not to have a system. The spa is tucked into the Tram Haus Lodge and while it may make Jay regulars scratch their heads, it surely is not detracting from the Jay experience.
So that leaves a huge honking glass enclosed water park. At the base of Jay Peak. In the middle of the Northeast Kingdom. What in the world is an indoor water based amusement park doing at one of New England’s finest “Skier Mountains”?
One could have asked similar questions in 1966 when a new slopeside hotel and aerial tramway were constructed. Or when the on mountain condos were constructed. Things now taken for granted by a new generation of Jay skiers (myself included) that never knew it any other way.
Jay Peak will not be the only Vermont ski resort to have a water based rides. Though on a much smaller scale and not usable in the winter, numerous ski areas already have waterslides. In my younger days, I recall enjoying waterparks at both Attitash and Alpine Ridge in New Hampshire. This waterpark is going to be a smash hit for families. Are families that enjoy waterparks any less Jay than the single and hardcore?
The new waterpark is nothing short of a water based amusement park. But then what is a ski area? Is it not a vertically slanted amusement park with cut trails, manicured trees, and a million gallons of *gasp* water in the form of man made snow? A ski area may be more natural and less artificial than an indoor waterpark. But let’s not kid ourselves–we are riding lifts, not earning turns.
Ski areas have always been amusement parks whether the mountain stands by itself with multi-million dollar lifts or if the ski area incorporates golf courses, alpine slides, arcades, zip lines, mountain coasters, or canopy tours. Standing in a Tram car looking down at the construction, I feel it may be hard to judge without throwing rocks within this glass housing.
But is it right for Jay? Does it fit the mountain’s character and persona? Not all amusement parks are the same; bigger is not always better. Just because past changes evolve into present expectations and just because other mountains have similar amusement features does not make something right for Jay by default.
It will surely bring more guests to Jay Peak throughout the year and provide Jay a feature with which to market the resort. It will very likely be a revenue generator. But does it fundamentally change the nature, character, or culture of Jay? Maybe. Maybe not.
While I can not fully get behind the idea of a massive indoor waterpark at Jay, I can’t think of any legitimate reason to oppose it. The waterpark won’t change the mountain, it won’t change the skiing, and it won’t change the powder. The character of the resort will still be distinctly Jay rather than a Sugarbush or a Stowe.
The powder is still deep, the trees are still epic, and the Freezer is still cold. It’s still Jay Peak.
12 thoughts on “Raising Jay or Razing Jay?”
When I thought all the NSBS posts were in, Riverc0il comes in with an another entry.
This theme is also being explored on my 2nd (yet-to be posted) entry, hopefully I can get up in the next few days.
I’m amazed how we thought of the same themes without prior discussion. Not overlapping to much with each our own perspective.
This is incredibly clear thinking on a topic I’m (now) really interested in. I agree with your thoughts on Tram House, RFID and the Waterpark really. Really well done.
If I was responsible for Jay Peak’s bottom line, I’d have to ask myself: “Is that hardcore powder skiing Jay core, going to abandon me because of the waterpark? And, if so, then which audience more profitable?”
The skiers I know who hit Jay peak, without much advanced planning are hardcore. Hardcore skiers get up early, and drive far, or in some cases rearrange their lives to get the closer to the mountains. They spend money on skiing. They skin, and traverse and do all kinds of things to relive that powder feeling.
Point is they are highly motivated. My guess is that hardcore Jay skiers want great Eastern powder and tree skiing. I think they’ll still come to Jay Peak.
Excellent post Steve, and your perspective pretty much echos mine on the same topics. You have hit a variety of nails right on the head.
Harvey- Your thoughts echo a perfect lead into my next piece. Not NSBS material but inspired by it on the drive home from the NSBS: what makes us “love” certain mountains but not others.
The Jay Peak hardcore will come back to Jay regardless of the changes. Jay had nothing to loose with the developments but they still kept the effected hardcore in mind (and asked for input) when making the changes and minimized the worst of the perceived negative effects. For myself (and many like me)… you won’t see hoards of Jay skiers going else where (because of the changes) no matter how they/we feel about things.
Great Post Steve as a Jaynik we get possessive and lose sight that Jay (and we) have to grow or we’ll lose it as the young set will go elsewhere.
Well done you guys! I think your writing will do a lot to promote and clarify the activities at Jay. As part of SBR’s family group, we are there for the snow and the blue sky days on the Vermonter but you know what??? I’m up for a trip down the river run when the water park opens!
A little context: L & D have been skiing at Jay Peak since the late 60s, own a house in the Jay area and drive 8 hours to get there. That is the definition of a dedicated Jay Peak skier!
Born and raised in the NEK, I grew up skiing Jay and consider it my home. This was a great article and perspective on the recent developments. Everyone knows the area needs jobs, especially during the summer months. And Jay might not get the epic crowds that some of the other mountains get, but throughout the past year, I’ve yet to hear anyone talk about potentially overcrowding the mountain by catering to these “spa and non-skier” types. Jay certainty isn’t a massive mountain and the concern for me isn’t about driving away skiers because of the new developments, but potentially jamming the mountain with too many people. One of the reasons why Jay is popular with the people I know is because of its remoteness and tradition of being an “anti-resort”. The water park may not change the mountain, the skiing, or the powder, but it very well may increase the crowds and congestion on the mountain. I think the new facilities were needed long ago and I’m sure I’ll take a run through the AquaLoop, but personally, I could do without the water park. I suppose only time will tell how it all shakes out, but so far so good!
Steve, excellent series of posts from the NSBS – same goes for Sickbird, Harvey, Madpat. You forgot the new firehouse;-)
I have never had an issue with the waterpark, as I have always had a fascination with them. I will though draw the line if they ever dare to put in a mountain roller coaster like Okemo – I’m probably OK with zip lines since they are used in the summer, but there is something very unpure about using a roller coaster to get down a mountain in the winter.
I have stated before that I generally support the development at Jay, and for the most part they have done a good job so far (probably a 9-9.5 out of a 10, and I’m a tough grader) – excellent job with the signage and ginger-bread things (wood features, haul rope, etc.); thought Clubhouse Grille came out excellent (aside from the fireplace); Tower Bar I actually have mixed feelings on, but hopefully they will have some cool bars in the New Hotel Jay. Yeah as Jay grows there will be more competition for powder – this has been the toughest thing to come to terms with –, but it will open up some BC opportunities; on a crowded powder day, one can always drive to Burke or Smuggs.
What I do have an issue with is razing everything (they’re not there yet, but there is nothing to make me believe they won’t be) – it is bad karma plus there is a subconscious connection in a lot of skiers minds since they’re accustomed to certain things, especially since everything might be razed in a relatively short period of time; I just hope they didn’t get a false sense of security as a result of no fallout from Hotel Jay (I think everyone was on agreement on that one). I know you are no fan of the State Side Chalet or the Bavarian stucco, but many are accustomed to it – it would be nice if they keep one of the two (State Side would probably be the most practical); I find State Side to be efficient and homey; I think it was Sick Bird who once had the best idea for State Side – move it over to where the Jet is, and I would love if they added on a small bar.
You make excellent points with the “self define”, which is one of the reasons I generally support the development. When I was deciding (a few years ago) where to purchase the factors were quality and reliability of skiing experience (snow/terrain), value, driving-time, apres skiing activities, and karma/vibe. My short-list was Jay, Stowe and MRV – Stowe I have a strong early childhood connection with but value and vibe were major issues; MRV was the runner-up; Sugarloaf was out because of the drive-time, après, and I have never connected with their Soviet concrete base-lodge. Of the mountains on the short-list, I by far had the least connection with Jay – just started skiing there a few years ago, and bought my first winter. While I had concerns about the sustainability of Jay (I bought before the change of ownership), I felt there was enough of a hardcore following to ensure somehow there would always be lifts running – I also did not buy it as an investment (I did though think I could always break-even), although I did buy something that was strategically and uniquely positioned so that there could be a nice upside if the mountain did grow. Vibe, not being commercialized and perhaps surprisingly après skiing offerings played a major role in choosing Jay – another country <4 miles away, Eastern Townships, and a cool cosmopolitan city 1:40 away; although that being said it is nice there will be more apres things to do to enhance the mountain experience (there is a fine line though).
BTW, I actually thought Clay Brook came out well. You want to see gaudy, take a trip to Jackson Gore at Okemo…or of course Spruce Taj de Peak!
@dk_ski_vt: Thanks for pointing out the jobs issue, I forgot to mention that aspect. SO many times during the summit, I looked around and thought “that person wouldn’t be working here if not for the expansion.” It is obvious the EB5 program is working but it only works if the positions are full time year round, thus the need for four season projects.
@dk_ski_vt: Also great point about the potential crowding issue, I forgot to mention that item as well. A very legitimate concern. Jay is rather uncrowded for a “resort” except on powder days. But then again, all of the majors will be crowded on powder days. The increased bed base and better amenities certainly can’t decrease visits, that is for sure. Too bad West Bowl is on the back burner. West Bowl will spread everyone out but it might get a little more crowded until then.
@magog_fishy: Interesting point regarding razing everything (especially all at once). I can see some folks being upset about that. Normally, I like the old school vibe (e.g. I am a Shareholder at MRG and I will scream bloody murder if someone proposes to raze the Basebox, as terrible of a lodge as it is from a modern perspective). I have 100% no attachment to any of Jay’s old facilities but I can understand those that do being upset.
Regarding gaudy and Clay Brook, I am probably in the minority on that view point. I know what they were going for but a billion dollar missile silo and barn only apes Vermont. They were trying to have it fit in and reflect VT but, I dunno, it is just wrong. They were trying to hard and it just sticks out like a sore thumb. No where near as bad as Spruce Peak, though.
Finally. Just did the finishing touches on Part 2 of the Jay Summit. See the link above.
I wonder how profitable the non-snow versus snow activities.
Indeed there is a multi year ramp up. I also wonder what the visitor count looks like summer vs. winter.
Inquiring minds want to know….